Daniel 7:9,13,22 – Ancient of Days

Daniel 7:9
saw until thrones were placed, and one who was ancient of days sat: his clothing was white as snow, and the hair of his head like pure wool; his throne was fiery flames, [and] the wheels of it burning fire.
Daniel 7:13
I saw in the night-visions, and, behold, there came with the clouds of the sky one like a son of man, and he came
Daniel 7:22
until the ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the Most High, and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

Unless otherwise stated, all quotations from the Bible are from the World English Bible version.

According to some, one of the titles (or “names”)  of Jesus “Ancient of Days”. An author on one site states: “The book of Daniel also speaks of Christ, Who is represented as both the Ancient of Days and the Son of man.” Another claims: “Jesus is the Ancient of Days, the one on the throne, our judge, our redeemer.” It is also claimed: “Daniel 7:21-22 verifies that ‘the Ancient of days’ is Jesus Christ.” These offer scriptures that, with only a surface examination, may seem to support their conclusions, but when the scriptures are examined closely, we believe that this conclusion is not valid.

Other trinitarians do realize that the Ancient of Days is the Father of Jesus, but claim that Jesus and the Ancient of Days are both one God. One seems to arguing that since both the “like a son of a man” and also the “Ancient of Days” are said to “come” that evidently this is supposed to mean that Jesus and his Father are one God.

Many translations add the word “the” before “son of man”, but the Hebrew does not have it. Likewise, there is no definite article before the word “man”. In other words the expression in Daniel 7:13 is anarthrous, while the expression that is usually used of Jesus to designate him as the Messiah is “the son of the man,” containing to definite articles, which designates the Messiah the son of the man David.

Some other claim that Jesus is the Ancient of Days and he also the one described as like “a son of a man,” claiming the dualism of Jesus being both God Almighty and a human being.

The scriptures do, however, reveal that the one who appeared like a son of man in Daniel’s prophetic vision is Jesus, and the Ancient of Days is the One described in the Revelation is He who sits on the throne, that is, Yahweh, the God of Jesus.
Revelation 1:4 – Who Is, Was, To Come – Jesus?

Nevertheless, the designation in Daniel 7:13 would seem to identify Jesus simply as a man, as it is applied to the mankind in general in Psalm 8:4 and Hebrews 2:6, and to Jesus specifically as a man in Hebrews 2:9, as he was in the days of his flesh. (Hebrews 5:7) On the other hand, Daniel does not say that he saw “a son of man,” but that he saw one “like” a son of man. This would indicate an appearance of the one who comes in the clouds as though he were a son of man, but not actually so, evidently similar to the the way the angels appeared to Abraham as “men”, when they were not actually men. But in Daniel we are dealing with a vision of symbolisms, which symbolism represent realities. In those visions, what Daniel saw being symbolically depicted is how Jesus appears symbolically to the world, as with clouds. This symbolism is also used in Isaiah 5:30, which coincides with the time of trouble that Daniel (Daniel 12:1) later speaks of. “They shall roar against them in that day like the roaring of the sea: and if one look to the land [earth], behold, darkness [and] distress; and the light is darkened in the clouds of it.” Jesus speaks of this, saying: “then the sign of the Son of [the] Man will appear in the sky. Then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of [the] Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory.” (Matthew 24:30) “I tell you, henceforth [after this] you will see the Son of [the] Man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming on the clouds of the sky.” (Matthew 26:64) “Then will they see the Son of [the] Man coming in clouds with great power and glory.” (Mark 13:26) “You will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of the sky.” (Mark 14:62) And the angel of Yahweh stated in the Revelation concerning Jesus: “He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, including those who pierced him. All the tribes of the earth will mourn over him.” (Revelation 1:7) Thus the one like a son of man is described by Jesus being the same as the son of the man (the man, David), that is, Jesus himself. Either Jesus was giving the “a son of a man” in Daniel 7:13 the meaning of “the son of the man,” or else he was simply stating that he, as the son of the man David, was the one who was to fulfill the prophecy.

The “Ancient of Days” is generally conceded to mean that Jehovah (Yahweh), and from the trinitarian standpoint, it is often assumed to represent the first person of their alleged triune God. John Gill describes the Ancient of Days as: “his divine Father, from whom, as man and Mediator, he receives his mediatorial kingdom, is invested with it, and insisted it, to it.” Matthew Henry states: “The Judge is the Ancient of days himself, God the Father, the glory of whose presence is here described. He is called the Ancient of days, because he is God from everlasting to everlasting.”

We believe that the “Ancient of Days” represents Yahweh, the God and Father of Jesus, but the idea that the Ancient of Days is the first person of an alleged triune God has to be assumed in the realm of human imagination, added to, and read into what is stated. Likewise, the idea that Jesus is the Ancient of Days has to also assumed in the realm of human imagination.

We have been asked two questions:
a.Who is the Ancient of Days? Our answer is that the Ancient of Days is Yahweh, the God and Father of Jesus.

b.Was He the one sitting on the throne of whom the Son of Man came or he is the one coming for the saints to possess the kingdom? Our answer is that the Ancient of Days is the one sitting on the throne, and that the Ancient of Days is not the one who is like a son of man.

The person who asks the above questions concludes from these questions that  “the Father and the Son are one God.”

Although we are not certain exactly what is thought in the questions to mean that Jesus and His God and Father are one God, the thought apparently is that by connecting some of the words that are related to both Ancient of Days and also the one designated as like a son of man, that this means that both are God.

The Ancient of Days (Yahweh) comes to judge the world through the one whom he as ordained, his Son Jesus Christ. (Psalm 96:13; 98:9; Acts 17:13) This does not mean that the one whom God ordained to judge the world is God, or a person of God.

Speaking prophetically, Daniel says:

“Judgment was given to the saints of the Most High, and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.” — Daniel 7:22.

This speaks of the saints, in that the authority to judge was given to the saints.

The language used in Daniel 7:22 is basically the same language that is used of Jesus in John 5:22:

For neither does the Father judge any man, but he has given all judgment to the Son. — World English.

 Additionally, Paul states:

Don’t you know that the saints will judge the world? — 1 Corinthians 6:2.

 And we also read:

Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly I tell you, that you who have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of Man will sit on the throne of his glory, you also will sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. — Matthew 19:28.

 Likewise, John wrote prophetically of those who participate in the first resurrection:

I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. — Revelation 20:4.

Furthermore, the Hebrew word translated as given in Daniel 7:27 is the same word that is used in Daniel 7:27, which states:

And the kingdom and the dominion, and the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the Most High. Their kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey them.

In Daniel 7:27, it is not that the kingdom is given on behalf of the saints, but rather it means that the kingdom is given to the saints, and they actually receive the authority and power to rule. Likewise, in Daniel 7:22, it is not that the judgment is given on behalf of the saints, but rather the power and authority is given to saints so that they judge both the world and the angels.

The Ancient of Days comes to judge, and also the son comes to judge, because the Ancient of Days comes to judge through, or by means of his Son, who he has ordained. (Acgts 17:31) As we stated, however, none of this means that Jesus and his God are both one God, etc. Any such thought has to imagined and assumed upon what the scriptures actually say.

The Trinity’s Weak Links Revealed: A chain is only as strong as its weakest link * Canada * United Kingdom (by Robert George) – The description includes the following: “Is Jesus Christ the ‘second person’ of God? Is Jesus Jehovah? The inspired word of God, the Bible, will reveal the answers in this book.” Evidently written by one who belongs the Jehovah’s Witnesses organization.


Jesus Was Not a Trinitarian * Canada * United Kingdom (by Anthony Buzzard) – This book has a lot of good information, but if falls short related to the prehuman existence of Jesus


Restoring the Biblical Christ: Is Jesus God? Volume One * Canada * United Kingdom (by Jason Kerrigan) Brother Kerrigan presents a well-written defense of Jesus as the Son of God.


The Companion Bible * Canada * United Kingdom – (By E. G. Bullinger) — A classic one-volume study Bible in the King James Version. Helps include Bullinger’s notes and also 198 appendices, including explanations of Hebrew words and their uses; charts; parallel passages; maps; lists of proper names; calendars; and timelines.

Should Christianity Abandon the Doctrine of the Trinity?

[The Interlinear Bible: Hebrew-Greek-English] [When Jesus Became God]
[The Basics of Biblical Greek]

         
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2 comments to Daniel 7:9,13,22 – Ancient of Days

  • Born Again Christian:
    Daniel 7:22
    GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)
    22It did this until the Ancient One, who has lived for endless years, came and judged in favor of the holy people of the Most High. The time came when the holy people took possession of the kingdom.
    Daniel 7:22
    Good News Translation (GNT)
    22 Then the one who had been living forever came and pronounced judgment in favor of the people of the Supreme God. The time had arrived for God’s people to receive royal power.
    Daniel 7:22
    New International Version 1984 (NIV1984)
    22 until the Ancient of Days came and pronounced judgment in favor of the saints of the Most High, and the time came when they possessed the kingdom.
    Daniel 7:22
    English Standard Version (ESV)
    22until the Ancient of Days came, and judgment was given for the saints of the Most High, and the time came when the saints possessed the kingdom.

    a) From all these translations, they were clear that the Ancient of Days is the Son who is coming.
    b) The Ancient of Days who is sitting on the throne is the Father, while the Ancient of Days who is coming is the Son.
    c) The Father is called the Ancient of Days, so is the Son. The Father and the Son were both Ancient of Days because they are one God.

    If I am understanding this correctly, the argument is concerning the word “came”, and it is evidently being assumed that since this word is used, that there are two who are being referred to the Ancient of Days, one who sits on the throne and another who comes. At most this has to be an assumption, since the God and Father of Jesus comes to judge the world by means of the one who he has ordained (appointed) to judge. There is nothing all in the Danile 7:22 that “clearly” or otherwise identifies Jesus as being the Ancient of Days in that verse.

    Although most of the translations have given a twist to the expression, “judgment was given”, so as to make it appear to not refer to giving authority to judge, still there is nothing in any of the translations that clearly or otherwise show that the Ancient of Days is the Son of the Most High who is depicted as the Ancient of Days who comes and gives the judgment to saints. If however, this scripture should be viewed as comeing to judge the saints rather than to appoint the saints as judges, it still does not offer any proof that the Ancient of Days in Daniel 7:22 is the Son of the Most High. — Luke 1:32,35.

    One should first understand that it is the God and Father of Jesus (Ephesians 1:3; 1 Peter 1:30) who gave the judgment — the authority and power to judge — to His Son.

    John 5:22

    For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son. — New American Standard

    For neither does the Father judge any man, but he has given all judgment to the Son. — Light Improved Version, World English.

    Likewise, it is the God and Father of Jesus who gives the authority to the saints to judge the world and the angels in the Kingdom Age. — 2 Corinthians 6:2,3; Revelation 20:4; Daniel 7:27.

    We read in Acts 17:31:

    For he has appointed a day in which he will judge the world in righteousness by the man whom he has ordained; whereof he has given assurance to all men, in that he has raised him from the dead.

    Who is “he” in the phrase “he has appointed”? Does “he” refer to Jesus, or to the God of Jesus? The context makes it clear that it NOT referring to Jesus, since it this same “he” who had ordained the man (person) through whom “he” will judge the world. Likewise, it is “he” who appointed this day who also raised Jesus from the dead. Thus, “he” who appointed this day is none of the unipersonal “God” spoken of in Acts 17:29,30. It is this unipersonal God who raise Jesus from the dead. It is this unipersonal God who is spoken of in Psalm 96:

    Psalm 96:10
    Say among the nations, Jehovah reigns. The world also is established that it cannot be moved. He will judge the peoples with equity.
    Psalm 96:11
    Let the heavens be glad, and let the earth rejoice; let the sea roar, and the fullness thereof;
    Psalm 96:12
    let the field exult, and all that is therein; then all of the trees of the forest sing for joy
    Psalm 96:13
    before Jehovah; for he comes, for he comes to judge the earth. He will judge the world with righteousness, And the peoples with his truth.

    This identifies “he” in the phrase “he has appointed a day in which he will judge” to be none other than Jehovah, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. It is Jehovah, the God and Father of Jesus (Exodus 3:13,14; Deuteronomy 18:15-19; Acts 3:13-26), who comes to judge the world by means of His Son, the one whom he has ordained. Thus, if Daniel 7:22 should be viewed as saying the Ancient of Days came to judge the saints (rather than to give authorization to the saints to judge), it is still the God of Jesus who should be viewed as coming to do such judging by means of His Son.

    Nevertheless, we believe that the correct application should be that the God of Jesus is depicted as the Ancient of Days who come to judge through His Son, and thus ordains those who are in Jesus to be judges with Jesus in the Kingdom. — Revelation 20:4.

    Daniel 7:27
    And the kingdom and the dominion, and the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the Most High. Their kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey them.

    No, there is no scriptural reason to imagine and assume that the Ancient of Days in Daniel 7:22 is the Son, and not the Father, or that there are two who are being referred to as the Ancient of Days in Daniel 7.

  • Born Again Christian

    Just answer these questions:
    1) Who is the Ancient of Days that came to judge the people of the Most High?
    2) The Father or the Son?

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